What Your Marriages Teaches Your Children | Season 2 Favorites

Welcome to another special episode of Orthodox Christian Parenting. So we're continuing our summer clip series before we return with Season three. And today we're going to look at a foundational piece of the parenting puzzle, the health of our marriages. So we're revisiting a beautiful conversation we had with Paul and Karen Kanan on what our marriages are actually teaching our children. They shared so many granular practical insights.

In fact, one of my favorite parts of this talk is when Karen explains why loving your husband is one of the most important things you can do for your kids and how self emptying love for your spouse creates a real ripple effect of peace in the home. They also dive into how our children learn strength and gentleness by watching how we talk to and about each other. It's so counter cultural but it's so deeply moving. Let's listen. What are those things that you would definitely do again?

Those practices, those habits of the heart, and those things that you would definitely cultivate again. And I'm gonna start you out with the first example because I know you and I know this to be true. And I know it's a great example for Walid and myself, but I know you focused on your marriage and it did a lot of the heavy lifting for you all and for what you did intentionally. So tell us about that.

Well, when you were saying about being around like minded people, which I think is a very important thing. Also, when you are with people that not just lift you, but make you better people, make you a better version of yourself. So I could be around friends that would say, you are married to a man that is the salt of the earth. He is such a wonderful man. You don't realize how rare it is.

And I would come back totally enamored with him. I could be around friends that might say, I can't believe you have to serve his plate of food, which I still do today. I serve him, which is an honor and You a do that as an honor. Literally serve his plate. They make fun of me because they say, do you cut his steak as well?

Well, at times I do, but it's been my honor and pleasure. And I would notice that when people-

Wait, I gotta drill in on this because I can hear the internet going, Oh my gosh, trad wife. You do that by choice. Not because he said, if you're gonna be married to me, you gotta cut my steak.

When Christ, when when they in that marriage service, when they say to honor your husband, I do that, but his job is much harder than mine. Yeah. He loves me despite who I am. And, you know, as a woman, we can't always be the easiest to especially from a man's mindset, we can't always be the easiest to get. And yet he loves and cherishes and adores me, which makes it very easy for me So to want to serve I've always done it.

And I get a lot of grief from a lot of women Mhmm. Who think it's silly, but it makes a huge difference.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Alright, Paul. You're gonna speak into that? The comments are coming.

Yeah, I do. My wife does a lot for me. She does. I'm pretty much everything I am is because of her.

See what I mean?

Well, mean, when you do stuff for me, it makes me want to be better. And I think she sees me trying to serve other people, try to serve our family, transfer our kids, our community. She does a lot for me. Could I do it on my own? Absolutely.

Could. But when she does loving things for me, and I don't require them, I don't ask her to do them, it makes me want to do more loving things for her and anybody else. I always tell her she's the hardest woman to be married to and the easiest woman at the same time because it makes it easy when I come home, didn't matter if we had three kids running around, didn't matter if I had five, seven, eight, nine nephews and nieces over the house along with my kids. The house is always some type of organized chaos. There's always some intentionality about making it nice for me when I get home.

She made my life very, very easy. But she makes my life very, very difficult because I have to live up to that. I have to be the man that deserves that. I have to be the man that doesn't come home and go, I can't believe I say all these horrible things about my wife to my buddies and then I come home to this. So it's it's very easy because she makes my life so wonderful and but it's very difficult because I, you know, I have to have that discipline.

You made it seem like you actually say horrible things and they might misunderstand. I must tell you, he speaks so highly of me to his friends that it also makes me have to live up. He's never said a harsh word, unkind word.

Don't don't get don't get us wrong. We disagree on things.

Yes. As as men and women

think differently. Differently than most people I've seen. And let me just say, first and foremost, sorry we'll lead because the bar is so high. I know your wife well, and the bar is so high because you approach with reverence your marriage and your husband, which is it's a really beautiful, but I would say not common.

Well, even more importantly, she prays for our marriage every morning.

Prays for your marriage. Yes. Yes. But I I think there is something about the way you guys talk to and about each other. That's probably one of the biggest things.

I know that models to and I as an example, but I'm sure to your children and now your grandchildren.

Children have seen an example of a man who is strong and gentle

Mhmm.

Has never raised his voice

Their grandfather. She's talking about my dad.

Yeah. And and I thanked him. That is one person. I am talking about Paul, but I have thanked my father-in-law so many times. By the way, he's expecting he has 18 great grandchildren.

18 great grandchildren.

15 grandchildren, 18 great grandchildren with four more on the way. So by 2023, we'll have 22. Wow. And I thanked him so much for the example he set that it's a blessing to me and to my daughters in law as well, because my sons treat them in such a way that he exemplified. So the marriage really has done a

lot of the parenting work. You you established I

think loving your husband the most is what's most important for the children.

Say more about that, Karen.

I think when parents love each other, regardless of how imperfect they are, that overrides, our mistakes. I love that.

And I think it calls us to, for lack of a better word, better behavior when we talk nicely about each other and we speak life into each other as opposed to frustration or guilt or, like, the shame of, oh my gosh, you're catering to whatever that was that you were talking about. You reap what you sow almost. I like that. He's made it easy for me though. One of the things that I think is important as we talk about things, which are so countercultural, I can already my mind is kind of wheeling of people who are gonna push back and say, I don't wanna cut his steak.

He can cut his own steak or whatever it is. Here's something I wanna call to our attention. I've seen you all for decades. I know you and it works. Your marriage and your home are peaceful.

And there is great exhale in the way you operate, in the way you navigate hard things, in the way you use your lives to glorify God. So I just want you to talk for one second about why do you think that works so that anybody who doesn't really feel comfortable about the idea of such, self emptying for your spouse, why does it work?

It's interesting. It works because I believe it was that's the way it was intended to work. And I think if people actually gave it a legitimate try, not, you know, with any resentment, or if you actually just try it even a little bit, just like if you show someone kindness that you're irritated with, the blessing comes and you're astonished that it can be reciprocated like that when you were just feeling the opposite. I don't think we're meant to people think we're supposed to act upon our feelings. We're actually supposed to we're meant to do the opposite of act upon our feelings.

And then it actually drives your feelings a certain way. So even if you don't feel like doing something, just give it a try.

It's so good. It it works. Tell me about forgiveness. What did that look like in your home? So if you did have those moments where it was like, you rubbed each other, there was a little bit of friction.

Yeah. Well, even with kids. So one of the things, the message that I tried to get through to my children very early in life is asking for forgiveness or apologizing first is a form of strength, not weakness.

That's good, Paul.

We know one thing we try to do in my family is calm, patience. Even when disciplining with the kids, I've seen a lot of people discipline kids. Get very emotional, very upset. They yell, they scream. We would just remove our child from the situation and then go talk to them.

I remember being a kid, if my mom wanted to give me a swat or something, I almost laugh as if she was this five foot woman, take a little, Okay, mom. I know my parents didn't spank us to every once in a while to watch to catch our attention. But I remember what broke my heart the most was when my parents would tell me they were disappointed in my actions. This is why. And this is what we expected from you.

This is so so talking to children, making them understand what what they're doing and why and how much you love them and why it hurts you to see them do things. And so everything in discipline. But we've had to apologize to our children many times they've had to apologize. So that's the first thing you need to learn in any relationship is forgiveness and apology because we are gonna mess up. We mess up all the time.

He is actually much better than I am, at saying I'm sorry. I'd I learned from him. It's not one of my strengths. That's for sure.

Yeah. Me neither. Yeah. Me neither. I'm getting better.

Yes. But it's you have to I have to be very intentional because my pride is so high. So to stop for a minute and to kind of regroup around what's the long game. Like, what is it we're looking to do? And not to be right.

And even when we have kids who repent. Mhmm.

Have to

show them repentance nor teach them repentance.

I think even when we apologize when we're in the right is even more powerful.

What would that look like?

You say you're sorry even when you know that you were right. I know there's times where he's apologized to me and he was right.

Or there's times, like we've always said, even when you're right, you can be wrong because your reaction to what you thought was incorrect or what you were accused of, if you take it over the tops, then even though then you're way wrong.

Yeah. I had it. One of my kids said to me one time, mom, why are you screaming at me? I'm like, I'm not screaming. He goes, well, you're not loud, but you're screaming.

But you don't have to be loud to scream. I was like, oh. But it's the same thing, you know, that idea of what's the heart posture? Even if you're technically right, what's the heart posture that you might be able to repent for?

The other thing I would change is our participation on youth sports on the weekends, specifically on Sunday. And I have a lot of thoughts about that or it's really important for your children at that age to build confidence and do the best they can. But we also have to teach them. Here's why we say no to maybe playing a basketball game on Sunday. I'll never forget.

I was in my office one day. I used to be an exclusive insurance agent with Nationwide Insurance And they were trying to get I was trying to buy a bunch of offices in the LA Orange County area. And they weren't sure if I had enough people to do it enough money to do it enough time to do it. So they sent out the head president and vice president nationwide came out from Columbus, Ohio to meet in my office. And it was a Monday morning and I had these two executives in my office.

The door was closed and I was giving them my perform and plan on how I could do this. And all of sudden my door opened up. It was my dad at the time. He was probably 85, 86. He used to walk the two miles from his house to my office.

And he walked in and he opened the door and said, Oh, hey dad, I have a meeting. Is Ramon and Marriages from Nationwide. They're here to talk about some really important business. Goes, nice to meet you. He said, I'll just be a second.

Oh, I'm scared.

And he looked at me and said, son, I didn't see you and Marcus in church yesterday. Oh, yeah. Well, we weren't there. We had a basketball game. Know, Marcus is on that travel basketball team and there are some, you know, people look at him.

So now I understand son. So just remember this one, this is in front of the two people from Nationwide. They're just looking at my dad talking to me. They said, just remember this son. There's a 99.9% chance that your son will never play in the NBA.

But there's a 99.9% chance he's going to be a good Orthodox Christian and be a good Christian and good member of society and he needs to be in church on Sunday. So I'll see you next Sunday. We'll see you next Sunday, dad.

Yes, sir. We closed the door.

The two gentlemen from nationwide looked at me and shook my ass and Paul, we want to do business with you. We like, we like

your dad. I love it.

Yeah. So it's important to make sure your kids have the best we can offer them as parents. And that doesn't mean the best car we can buy them to drive or the best clothes or the best schools. We want them to have the best Christian education that they can have. And sometimes we take them out of church occasionally, but we need to teach them what's important.

And this is why, you know, the Catholics, I guess they're lucky, maybe they have liturgies or they have their masses on Saturdays, but it doesn't keep the Sunday day for the family, for the church, for the Lord. So I didn't do a great job at that. I did drive my kids all over the place on some Sundays to play golf and to play basketball. Now I look at it differently and I have a little different advice for my grandkids. You know, let them play sports, let them do all that, But also teach them it's important to say, you know what?

I'm Orthodox Christian. I go to church on Sundays. And they'll look back at that and you'll teach them more than that than playing basketball.

Did you ever have a child who seemed to be the harder one when it came to faith? And what did you do differently for that child if anything?

You know, being being a child that didn't really like to go to church and unfortunately, I'm I'm envious of the people that can't wait to go to church, that can't wait to go to the services during Holy Week, stay for extra services. I'm I'm don't have the focus sometimes for that, which is pathetic because I could play golf for four and a half hours and not have a problem.

Four and a half? Try. 36 holes.

So so being a child to answer a question to a thriving to, you know, I want to ask this question to Bishop John. And I said, Bishop John, I'm all concerned. I don't don't love being in church all the time. And when I'm there, I'm distracted. And how am I gonna make it in heaven?

How am I ever gonna get to heaven? If heaven's just like a big church service, they're not gonna want me because I barely pay attention here. And he said, Paul, you know, church, heaven's like a banquet. Just imagine a party in a banquet with all the people you love, everyone you know who come before you and are here now, and even the people you don't even know yet, all together having a great time. That's what happens.

So for me, you gotta change the perspective of children of church sometime, but not you gotta be there. This is what we have to do. You have to make them want to go. And I don't know what that is sometimes. Sometimes that is getting involved in more things at church, sometimes making sure they have a friend or not everybody's blessed to go to the same church as four generations of family or have their cousins.

If you're new to a church, maybe your child doesn't want to go there because you don't know anybody. They don't feel comfortable with the new traditions. You don't always tell them, this is why you have to go to church. Find something that they enjoy about church. That's right.